FestersImagesQuestionsAnswered
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[edit] Some answers from the FacultyForTheInterpretationOfImages to FacultyMemeticsFesterImages
[edit] Definitions
Indeed I used dictionary definitions to highlight the difference between Text and Image and this although I specially dislike the reference to those kind of definitions. Here the use of those was deliberately applied so as to off handedly bypass too much theorising which, I thought, would be counter-productive to our Faculty's purpose which is to InterpretImages and not differentiate image from the rest of the world of concepts. However I understand that your interest also was piqued by the Image/Text antagonism which I am currently trying to push into its extreme limits but I have to remind us all that this is a subset of a research of the faculty on the question of the absence of text on the internet, which, thanks to your input I am going to rename and broaden.
- Image
- What characterises an image?
- I would venture to say that it is unfeasible to "characterise an image" abstractly or rather I'd like not do it this way. I am more interested in differentiating an image from something else, at this point. Hence the Image/Text discussion which seems very contemporary: it is becoming rarer and rarer that one can see an image without any alphabetical element in it.
- How can we tell if something is an image or not?
- An image, as interpretable by our Faculty, is a 2 dimensional still representation we see with and before our eyes. An image must be visible in approximately the same external conditions by others to be interpreted.
- Are you only dealing with visual images or do sculptures count as three-dimensional tactile images?
- They don't. and mind images, as they cannot be passed faithfully to someone else do not count either. Only visual, right.
- What about imitated birdsong?
- This is a strict No Way from the Faculty.
- Text
- You appear to be referring to graphically recorded words only. Is this a correct understanding or are you also considering a broader meaning of "text" as "a body of work containing ideas"?
- It is a correct understanding of what I meant at the time under those conditions and is valid in our Faculty environment.
- What about MP3 audiobooks - text, image or something else?
- Sound.
[edit] The Image v Text Dichotomy
- You seem to be arguing mostly that a thing is either text or image.
- Not exactly. I was particularily interested in discerning one from the other, this does not mean that the world is divided between either of those but that would be an interesting topic for the FacultyTaxonomy: how deep can one go into tagging the world, when to stop and at can the tagging ultimately become more precise than the minute world itself ?
- Can a thing perhaps be both text and image?
- perhaps, then how would you call this ? a thing with no name does not exist as far as theory is concerned yet it can be seen, sometimes shown, and only then can one name it.
- And particularly, if text is perceived visually is it not necessarily also image?
- To some point, probably and here I could also divert you to one of my previous forays into that topic. Of course this is the starting point of my current research on Internet only images
[edit] Text as an image encoding representation according to conventions
- Is it fair to say that text is a sequence of images which can be interpreted according to well-established conventions? If not, why not?
- It is fair enough! but what is the point of this blending of distinguished elements (I ask you this not to confront but to elicit a response) ? here we could also benefit from semantic research and the concept of Sign.
- I wonder if one difference is that text is mostly (but not exclusively - think about poetry) linear and thus one dimensional.
- Interesting. Your remark made me think that the opposition perhaps lays in that an image can be grasped immediately as a whole whereas text needs a special process to go thru it, reading, which makes the apprehension of text an ongoing process. Very interesting. A corollary to that thought is that an image cannot be read otherwise it is not an image. Now, we could all go back to the exhibits of WhenDoesTextOnAnImageStopsItFromBeingAnImageAndBeginsToMakeItText and see that I have labelled William Blake's Laocoon as text and the one above it (by Gary Panter) as an Image. It was a difficult choice.
- By comparison image is two- or three-dimensional and the relationships between the parts are thus less tolerant of distortions (e.g. distorted text fields v distorted images in a reformatted web page).
- I don't think that still images are three-dimensional. They are 2D and sometimes wish to emulate 3D but are doomed to fail.
[edit] "On the Internet there is no text, there are only images"
- Is it any less valid to say "there are no images, there is only text"?
- It is less valid! anyway, I'm rephrasing this to "On a Screen there is no text, only images" thanks to our discussion.
- The images you see are representations reconstructed from a linear stream of digital data (text?).
- Digital data is neither image nor text (as sound is neither also or the birds and the bees for that matter). Data is a very vague concept which encompasses too much anyway and cannot be compared to image or text. Well, I think I see where you might be pointing but am not sure, do tell: Are you implying that computers are text driven and therefore the GUI is an heresy and the command line is holy ? this would be an interesting development of this topic but I find it a bit OT
[edit] Interpret this:
http://www.escualotis.com/unpopperuno/Immagini/magritte.jpg
- Text or image?
- easy: image!
- What does it mean?
- First I find it illusory to expect that an image can mean something universally (not exactly what you say, but its a good opportunity to state what I believe!).
- Anyway, one interpretation of this image (that I have seen so many times but never thought of this one ever which means that the page ContextContextContext must be built indeed) would be that the painter wanted to show the superiority of image over text. The image shows a pipe we all bloody know it's a pipe and subtly it refers also to primary school panels which are used to teach the alphabet "P is for Pipe" but the text here tries to subvert the power of the image, it ridiculously fails of course (the text, not the painting, fails) and as a materialist I find deep empathy with this painting which reinforces my opinion that theory should come after practice like mind does over matter.
- Of course, here text is inside the image, part of it, so the painter is playing a cheap trick on text. it is unfair to text because text is not playing on its own turf here it has been brought into the field of its enemy.
- Going back to the school panel allegorized in this painting, one has to note that such panels use images to teach the use of text. text is an acquired taste to the education of man, image is right there at the beginning and it is somehow puzzling that we have to go, in a way, back to the interpretation of images. It is puzzling yet it reveals that images have been used in evil ways and we need to reclaim control over them.
- Does it make sense?
- Should it ? The world does not make sense, it is humans which try to make sense of it.
- Is it true?
- An image is always true to itself as a System. The relationships of that System to surrounding systems make it, fortunately, go beyond the notion of truth. Just a question: are you looking for truth in images ?
[edit] Now try this one, same questions:
[edit] THIS IS NOT TEXT
- image or text ?
- easy: text!
- not so easy: it's on a screen and you made it bold and capitalized it and the context says you are trying to confuse us.
- what does it mean ?
- Nothing. And this is where text is less powerful than images like Magritte's
- Is it true ?
- Nothing is true. War is Peace, but the images we have of that disprove it.
[edit] awaiting your responses eagerly
- I wonder how this important and helpful discussion can be reformatted and reintegrated in our respective faculties ?
- you might want to consider using the IncludePagePlugin, the TranscludePlugin or the AddCommentPlugin
